Curse

Snow Bunny · Oct 06, 2007, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Fitz,

You are not a casual player - you have roughly twice the amount of play time I do logged in, and I have some achievements to my name, and probably 12x the gold.

Stop with the casual player garbage, the politico-social theory, and stop with this "ANet is killing us."

There's enough people running around with EotN high end crap so that you should know:

People aren't having that difficult of a time making money.

Crom The Pale · Oct 06, 2007, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Its a sad trueth but today people want everything faster and easier than people used to. The world has changed, and the video game world is racing to catch up.

In the good old days(ie before sorrows furnace update) I could go week's between seeing a single Crystaline sword for sale at any price. Now I could probably WTB in 3 or 4 cities and get one with ease.

It used to be players went MONTHS without finding a gold drop or a max weapon in Tyria, now I get one every time I log on.

Granted that GW:EN and Prophicies are now where equal in scale, that being said however in the same length of time that GW:EN has been out I would guess that fewer than 100 Crystiline swords or max gold Fellblades had been found in prophicies. Yet there was not a massive rush to the forums from people demanding that they increase thier drop rates.

Now people wish to log in, kill one or two mobs and get a max perfect gold item, sell it for some crays 100K + XX ectos or ambraces and then sit in a town and preen over how good a player they are.

Yes this game is meant to be about skill rather than time spent, but time will never be completely removed from the game without completely destroying the value of playing it. Anyone can aquire max weapons and armor within a very short period of time after they create a new char, but if you want a rare or expensive item you will have to be patient.

Malice Black · Oct 06, 2007, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Guild Wars is the most casual player friendly it has ever been, yet people still moan?!

Back in the day it could take months for a person to get a gold, now they drop in abundance, and with inscription slots!

There was no green items...
There was only FoW/UW to farm
Max armor at the end of the game, not the beginning..
No heroes

People have it easy these days, try going back 2 years and playing then.

Darkobra · Oct 06, 2007, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

Guild Wars is the most casual player friendly it has ever been, yet people still moan?!

Back in the day it could take months for a person to get a gold, now they drop in abundance, and with inscription slots!

There was no green items...
There was only FoW/UW to farm
Max armor at the end of the game, not the beginning..
No heroes

People have it easy these days, try going back 2 years and playing then.

Exactly what Malice said. I played back during the days of the beta. Had a terrible computer back then that couldn't quite keep it going, but I stuck it through with hench and played the game because I loved it. It was much harder to make cash back then and even the rare materials were more expensive.

Now the prices of everything has dropped and I'm sitting with 200k in my bank through "casual play". I've never been on hard mode either. That's right. Simply playing through the game on a few characters has netted me 200k in two weeks. A few golds here that I sold to the MERCHANT for 300 gold. A few runes here: MERCHANT again. Real players? I don't trade with them.

I remember playing a game where I had everything handed to me. I was done in a day.

combatchuck · Oct 06, 2007, 04:17 PM // 16:17

I agree with OP. I keep on seeing these super-rare weapons for sale for exhorbitant prices, and I can't afford them. Why shouldn't I have a Kanaxai miniature? I mean, I've been playing this game for 2 and a half years and I've only been able to buy one set of Obsidian armor! I think my characters should start with Obsidian armor! I think we should all get Crystalline swords and Platinum staves right from the go, and then when we beat the game, we get ... uh ...

Well, that's beside the point. What we're arguing is that everything should be available to everyone. Maybe we could just have a command to do it, similar to /bonus. That way, everybody could have every rare skin in the game! How awesome would that be?

william1975 · Oct 06, 2007, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Everything is available to everybody,

the simple fact of the matter here is that its a lottery as to what you will get,

If everyone ran about witht the rare item that you want so badly then it woudln't be rare would it?

I remember a certain Gold mini coming out areound new year in the land of Cantha, when that mini was aquired through preents it was worth a small fortune. Then the final event occured, and everyone got the mini, and in fact managed to get multiples of it in some cases, I, myself, ended up with 5.

Whats it worth now? 2K if you are lucky,
Does anyone try and sell it anymore? not really
Is it on display all the time in towns? Nah

Give rares to everyone and the same thing will happen. Quite simply the economy will crash and burn.

So how many want to see a mini Panda drop from chest? Maybe yo will get a few saying it would be cool. Drop them for a year from chests and then see the price of the mini drop to nothing, and everyone not give a damn if you have one or not. Will you feel like you have got a nice little surprise with your panda when you have one? Not on your nelly. Why? Because the majority have one or could get one if they wanted to.

I got my first platinum longbow over a year ago, and i was extatic coz it was my first rare skin, i sold it for 70k and was extatic because it was a huge amount of money to me. I have had 3 more drop and now couldn't care less and couldnt sell them either. I don't want to feel this way about any rare item, making them easily aquirable simply makes no sense to me

creelie · Oct 06, 2007, 07:37 PM // 19:37

I find complaints like these hilarious. People only want fancy things that are hard to get, and then complain because they're hard to get, and the whole time they don't actually need any of them because they are functionally identical to items available to everyone.

I love this game.

I wonder if other game designers have noted that you don't actually have to make elite items even marginally more powerful than their common brethren in order to have people busting their humps for them?

Snow Bunny · Oct 06, 2007, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

In 1509 hours, I have never seen a max fiery gladius. That is ok. I don't really want one - just thought it would be a lark for my P/W when he would go to lower end areas to play around. In 1509 hours, I have never seen a max sickle (the real sickle skin) to put on my Derv whose name means "Singing Sickle-King" in an old Central Asian dialect. I never found a max gold scythe for him - tho I was given one by a neighbor. In days to weeks of farming the Skyway, I never found a max cockatrice staff one - and none that I would use. I never found a max Celestial Sword that was useable. And ofcourse now, if it is not a Destroyer weapon then it means nothing. And there isn't a single Destroyer weapon I find entertaining for any reason other than to put it in the HoM and then hope I can throw it away so I can have space in my inventory. I have trapsed through the fire islands repeatedly and I have never seen a single Magmas shield drop once, never seen a max Jade Horn Bow - not that it would matter since the stats would be horrid and unchangeable. I have just mapped all of South Shivers and the Fire Islands with my ranger and gotten nothing.

There is No Such Thing as a vanity item. There will Never Be Such a Thing.

I am well aware of this.
I do not think the only way for someone to play better than I do is to cheat. I do know that the only reason the extreme prices are so prevalent in the game is because GW has promoted cheating through restriction of drops and exploits they failed to bother with in a timely manner for the last two plus years.

I have well over 3k hours in game. It is not about looking "cool" which is for sheeple. It is about looking right for my character. Modding is for comp wizzes and people richer than I am. And it does nothing for the game. A modded collector sword from outside of Elona's Reach (which is a sword I like btw) is useless and has no value because of HoM.

I hate farming. I loathe and detest farming. I should not be forced to farm to obtain the things I want playing the game. I have farmed. I bought max armor for all my characters not in Pre (the one working LDoA, which I also detest working on and loathe those that insist it never be changed to something enjoyable because they suffered through it without the brains to seek for something better). I bought supers of vigor for all of my max armors ( and amazingly - with no one else on the account, no one else having access to my computer, etc. most of those have magically disappeared.

- which of course I can't prove and ANet wouldnt give a damn if I could.)

Too bad. You made yourself look like an idiot in your last thread because you were complaining about the dumbest shit.

No one cares, not many are sympathetic, and really,

WHAT ARE YOU DOING FOR 12 HOURS IF YOU CAN ONLY AFFORD COLLECTOR WEAPONS?!

Darkobra · Oct 06, 2007, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Exactly. People who say they only want a sword for its looks THEN complain because it's a max, fully moddable blue and not a gold really confuse me.

Jongo River · Oct 06, 2007, 08:52 PM // 20:52

I've debated responding to this thread since it started - it's been a struggle because the issue that's really bugging me is the bullshit on both sides.

Firstly, I'm staggered that a player who has 10 toons and owns Nightfall has, apparently, *not* found a very obvious method of kitting them with plenty of r9 golds and acquired a heap of cash in the process (hint: treasures).

On the other hand, acting as though a player who finds themselves poorly kitted with a dull collector weapon and a couple of elemental mods, is a whiner for being disappointed, is equally irritating. Call me old fashioned, but I think players have a right to feel rewarded for progression in a game and their tools should be upgraded by default, rather than luck - and that is *NOT* always the case with Guild Wars, given the lottery of drops and reliance on the economy, that we face.

Jongo, my recently deleted ranger, reached the ring of fire islands in Prophecies, without ever getting a gold bow drop more interesting than a plain "Longbow" and he never received anything as useful as a zealous, vampiric or even a wretched sundering mod. Even come Nightfall, I still had to rely on the treasure/triple gold weekend farming of multiple characters to get a reasonable range of kit for any particular character.

I've nothing against uber rare items, but seeing the blandest of skins dropping in high end areas and never receiving a reasonable complement of "appropriate" items for a toon (presumably to encourage trade) was a major failing of early Guild Wars and still isn't entirely fixed.

the_jos · Oct 06, 2007, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Quote:

One of the problems I have with the Loot Scaling and all decent drops shipped to Hard Mode and Elite Areas breaks the promise GW is supposed to also be for casual gamers.

Quote:

In 1509 hours, I have never seen a max fiery gladius. That is ok. <snip> I have just mapped all of South Shivers and the Fire Islands with my ranger and gotten nothing.

I have done a lot of Hard Mode missions and vanquishes with my guild.
It's not like the perfect golds are suddenly raining down when you enter Hard Mode. Chances of getting a gold are indeed higher as in Normal Mode and the mods might be better, but that's about it.
In all those runs I have seen maybe 2 or 3 drops (for others) that I would consider good.
The rest were either merch or salvage items.
I kept some as hero items, but those are not perfect.

I also still play a decent amount of normal mode and drops there have not changed since the introduction of HM/loot scaling.
On my quest for Leg. Carto. I found several gold weapons, about the same quality average Hard Mode would give.
Because I was killing less foes than in a vanquish the drop rates are not totally comparable, but for me they seemed fair and in line with earlier NM experiences (from the time there was no HM).

Are people punished for playing Normal Mode?
Or rewarded for playing Hard Mode?
Well, that last one might be true, but most of that reward is gold drops which have better merchant value than white.
The occassional tome might drop, which saves 1K when you need a skill you already unlocked. However, you could also get the skill at the trainer, it would cost you more. Or buy a tome, regulars are about 500g (so you save 500g).

The items that would be in range of 100K+50 ecto would be either rare or hard to get.
Rare => lucky drop or bargain buy
Hard to get => farming gemstones for hours or buying them (would still cost a lot of gold) for torment weapons.

It's fairly simple. With rare items, you always have a market where the seller determines the price. This has nothing to do with Hard Mode/loot scaling and a lot with the droprate of those items.
With Hard Mode/loot scaling, for a lot of items the droprate increased, lowering their price already.

With the hard to get, you have to invest time.
If you don't want to invest that time, you need to buy that time from someone else.
Why would I sell a gemstone to you for 10K when it takes me about 1 hour to farm one on average and I can farm 20K somewhere else?
Add rarity to this and you know why those items are expensive.

In the end, for the NM 'casual player' as buyer on the market things got better, not worse with HM/loot scaling.
From income farming perspective things did not get better (lootscaling), but that was not the argument here.

wilderness · Oct 06, 2007, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

There is No Such Thing as a vanity item. There will Never Be Such a Thing.

All golds are purely vanity items, not one of them is needed to enhance your characters ability, they are entirely wanted for form over function and there is no argument against this in the slightest.

I suggest you review your rather bitter opinion on this matter, I can promise you you're IG experience will benefit greatly.

Mineria · Oct 06, 2007, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Played less then 1500 hours.
Got plenty of rare drops, 4 elite sets etc.
So I don't really see the OP's problem...

manitoba1073 · Oct 06, 2007, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

Guild Wars is the most casual player friendly it has ever been, yet people still moan?!

Back in the day it could take months for a person to get a gold, now they drop in abundance, and with inscription slots!

There was no green items...
There was only FoW/UW to farm
Max armor at the end of the game, not the beginning..
No heroes

People have it easy these days, try going back 2 years and playing then.

Well its 50/50 on being casual friendly.

Sorry for all those it appears that they had such a hard time back then as the vast majority I knew back then we NEVER had a problem with gold items or gold coins. The ones that only had a real problem was the ones that logged on for about an hour every once in awhile.

Greens werent even needed then and hey aren't needed now.
Sorry but there was way more than FoW/UW to farm.
Max armor was actually closer to 3/4 of the way through the game then the end.
Didnt need heros either henchies usually did fairly well, except everyones favorite tanking monk hench. I miss the days of alesia monking lol

But it still wasnt as bad as you guys make it to be. Hell I bought req 8 15^50 weapon for 7k in 2 months from the start of the game. wasnt a skin most people liked but it wasnt outrageous as lots claim of prices being rediculous either. As most people who actually played an RPG before would know if you didnt put in any effort you wont get anything. You know of that funny rumor where if you go out you kill something it dropped something. Gee I'd never thought rumors like would work on 90% of any RPG's lol.

Age · Oct 06, 2007, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

Guild Wars is the most casual player friendly it has ever been, yet people still moan?!

Back in the day it could take months for a person to get a gold, now they drop in abundance, and with inscription slots!

There was no green items...
There was only FoW/UW to farm
Max armor at the end of the game, not the beginning..
No heroes

People have it easy these days, try going back 2 years and playing then.

The only difference in today as in 2 years go is the drop rate in ecto and shards.I do remember when it dropped better back 2 years ago than it does today.When I am in a 3 to 4 man team I never get drop and we can be down there for an hour.

wingzro · Oct 06, 2007, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Real casual gamers wouldn't give a flying hoot about any of these things. They'd be all willing to just drop the game and move onto another one. IMO

PureEvilYak · Oct 06, 2007, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Except for my ascended armors, everything I own in Guild Wars is a product of luck. My 15^50 Storm bow was gotten from a chest in UW the first time I entered. My 15^50 Azure bow was again, a product of luck from a chest. Even my mini (longhair yeti... Melandru I love saying that...) was a winning from a competition. The ascended armors are just the outcome of me strolling along through the game, singing my happy tune, and picking up everything that drops. I'm probably not a casual player anymore, as I spend most of my time in hard mode, clearing out these nasty monster infestations. I am definitely not worthless, and I have farmed UW two times in my entire account history... during the free god realm event, and the time when I got my bow. Granted, I only focus on one character, but hey? You could do the same, and if you were so casual, why would you care about getting 10 characters to endgame?

You can't see me · Oct 07, 2007, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

No I am not golden. In fact it is white. And I do not really care that it is white or gold, but I don't particularly like looking at the purple any longer than I have to and the green is an eye-sore. However, I - and any other role player - wants the image of their character to fit the role they themselves imagine for them. So, what you are saying is that I can get any skin and any style that will fit my play at any collector, and then use any insignia I want on said collector armor that comes in any style I want? Or that I can just romp up to a collector and get a Cockatrice Spawning 20/20 stave? If I can't do that then the collectors only have things that are merely tolerable.

A video game is Only about what you see.

So because you do not like looking at greens, no matter the stats, and because you want high end skins versus what's offered to you at collectors, and because you do not want to gather 15 plat to go get any non elite armor, you say that you're entitled to have items that fit the look you want exactly?

Pure bullshivism. The collectors may not have every style you want, but if you think you're entitled to the nicer armors and the better skins of weapons for the same price as the collectors, then you need to wake up. You should be glad the collectors are there. Weapons with those sort of stats should cost a lot more than 250 gold and 50 wood IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

Something like that. When some players say, "We want a more challenging area of game play," that is great. When it is, "We want a more challenging area of game play with exclusive items, double value gold drops, twice the chance of any decent drops others can get, and special rewards," then they are liars to say what they want is a challenge. And no, a person does not deserve a higher reward for a challenge they asked for. To seek or expect such is ill-mannered.

With a higher challenge, a higher reward is not only justified, it is implied. I wouldn't go out into Hard Mode if it didn't offer better rewards. They say the want a challenge because with a challenge COMES greater rewards than an area that is not challenging. I shouldn't have to ask for level 26 mobs to drop better things then level 16 mobs. It's a bit implied, don't you think?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

There is nothing about changing builds that is going to make massive touch AoE from 16-20 inseparable foe merely a challenge.

Straight up bull crap.

You have access to hundreds of skills in this game. Over 1000 in fact. There are many that reducde damage greatly, heal you when you're damaged, and even prevent it at all. Learn to use them. Nothing is that hard that you cannot hope to do it at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

Well, I know that spending days with one hero healer farming gaki for one Skull Juju couldn't get one. I will accept the luck of the draw theory only so far as I also accept the game is hacked, botted, and e-bayed. And no, I do not believe an honest player, and especially an honest casual player, has a chance.

Has no chance against what? There's no big race here to beat out everyone else, especially the ones who gain an unfair advantage. The only race you're running against others is the vain one in your head. And not only hackers and botters have FoW armor. Plenty of honest players make a very well earned and very large salary, with which they easily compare to the botters.

And since when do you agree to accept game mechanics or not? They're there, whether you like it or not. They're out of your control. Luck is a part of everything in this game, just as the casual player can be lucky and move up, or be unlucky and stay down. It's not a theory. Luck of the draw on drops, mission completion, and all game mechanics is fact. Like it or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

I have one green on one character that I like to use. That is Moteh's Lightening Spire, which happened to drop when I was capping him. I have and use Asterius Scythe because I dont have anything better for my Derv. I dont like the stats, only the skin, and can't get what I want. I do have Alem's Remedy on my Rit but hardly ever use it because she is mostly set for channeling, but it is ok. I have a couple of other useless greens, which most greens are useless, ugly, or both.

Worst one yet. Most greens are ugly, useless, or both? While a majority of greens may not have the PERFECT skin and the PERFECT stats, there are many that do. I suggest you look some up on wiki. A lot of greens come with the same stats as perfect golds do, at about 1/10 the price. And for that, you expect them to have the greatest skins of all time? Yeah, great logic there. "I want a cheap weapon that works perfect and looks 1337". Stop whining. Greens are indeed very useful weapons. As for the skin, if you want the reward, then go work for it. Don't complain that you have to lift your finger to get nice looking things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

And I will say you are right, the time I spend in hard mode - farming LB and SS points because I have no other option, I do not get anything worth while. Only blues and whites and a pittance of gold. If they didnt want us farming the areas then they shouldnt have set the point levels for achievement so ridiculously high. I have other characters in game to work on besides this bullshit grind fest they keep imposing. (And if I get everything else done with them then the grind fest is all I will have left

.)

And where do you get the idea that they don't want you farming these areas?

You're saying that you want mountains of gold and gold drops instead of blues and whites, for farming an area that is not hard at all, while getting beneficial SS and LB points?

Wrong. Why should you be rewarded in that manner for that? Especially while recieving other rewards. That's not a challenge it all. Maybe the worst whine ever. "I want an easy farming area that gives me nice things while giving me nice points". Idiot.

This is not a thread, it is a whine. The whole package is one big complaining mass. "I have to work to get things... bohoo. And I don't want to use things with the same stats that are cheaper because they are ugly! And I want everything handed to me! I shouldn't have to grind or work to be rewarded!"

If you don't like work, then you don't reap the rewards. End of story. Worthless whining. I hope you get blues and whites for the rest of your pathetic career.

Lord Sojar · Oct 07, 2007, 05:54 AM // 05:54

You know what the title of this thread wants to make me do? /wrists

You know what the Hall of Monuments makes me want to do? I'll give you a hint, it's the same thing this thread title makes me want to do.

Kashrlyyk · Oct 07, 2007, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcady

You simply cannot get more hardcore than farming. A person who voluntarily grinds in a place that they have already completed for no 'game completion purpose' (like a GW title or like in WoW with its quests to kill 1001 fishmen), but merely to amass more coinage / gear - that's hardcore.
...

NO! That is a player tha enjoys playing Railroad Tyccon or other economy simulations, where the major point is to earn money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

...The 'fancy' items are fancy mainly because they are rare. ....

For a 14 year old maybe, but there are players that think something is fancy because it looks fancy, no matter how rare it is.